Vinyl to digital conversion

[John Kool]

I have reluctantly started to transfer some LP's that I haven't listened
to in years to iTunes.

Jazz, Rock, Big Band, Classical.
Maynard, Freddie Hubbard, Maurice Andre, Norton Scores...(Mentioned to
stay on topic with rec.music.makers.trumpet )


First I record....
Choose Audacity, Final Vinyl or CD Spin Doctor - all are free. (well CD
Spin Doctor came free with Toast)

But I was never satisfied with the Pop filters.

I found yesterday a product for Mac, Windows or Linux users called
ClickRepair.

It is a one trick pony. All it does is remove clicks. But it removes
via a mathematical algorithm instead of a filter for less loss of quality.

It only works with aiff files, but it does do batch processing, so you
could set up a boatload of files to process overnight or start while you
are at work. I intend to stack several lp's on my changer and set up to
record. Then process the sound files to remove the pops and then label
the tracks and export to iTunes.

You get a full featured to use 21 days before buying, but I was sold
after one LP. So, I suppose you could convert a library without paying
for it at all....but I did pay the $40 gladly.

I am in no way affiliated with the company other than being a satisfied
customer.

I think we had a discussion about converting LP's a few months ago. I
don't recall this shareware program being mentioned.

You can find out more about it here:
http://wwwmaths.anu.edu.au/~briand/sound/

I thought the address was a mistake with no dot after www, but it works.
It also works with the dot.
.................................................................................

I have also found a way to stitch together scans of the 12 inch square
record jackets, which are too big to scan in one pass with my scanner.

PhotoStitch by Canon. I think it came with my camera. It is not
available to download on the Canon site, but they do have updaters which
made the Mac OS 9 version I already had compatible with OS X.

It will take the multiple scans and automatically line them up and
overlap correctly to make a single image out fo them without much efffort.

I am sure you could do this with a dedicated graphics program as well,
but the ones I tried required a lot of manual manipulation.

Once stitched together, I will have art for the CD liner and can OCR the
liner notes to a text file.

One thing I really miss about downloading from iTunes is the information
about who is playing on what track, etc. (not that I study it all that
often)
.................................................................................

I am less reluctant to start this huge project, now.

[John Kool]

Post by John Kool
I have reluctantly started to transfer some LP's that I haven't listened
to in years to iTunes.

<SNIP>

Post by John Kool
I am less reluctant to start this huge project, now.

I received a suggestion to mist an LP with water prior to recording.
Supposedly acts like a lubricant for the needle and reduces or
eliminates pops and crackles.

Does this sound ok to the experts on the list?

[David]

Post by John Kool
I received a suggestion to mist an LP with water prior to recording.
Supposedly acts like a lubricant for the needle and reduces or
eliminates pops and crackles.
Does this sound ok to the experts on the list?

Use distilled filtered water. No mineral deposits or other
contamination left on vinyl.

The act of misting the record helps to reduce static electricity. If the
air has low humidity, having a humidifier nearby will also help. Static
electricity is the enemy.

[docsavage20]

Post by John Kool
I received a suggestion to mist an LP with water prior to recording.
Supposedly acts like a lubricant for the needle and reduces or eliminates
pops and crackles.
Does this sound ok to the experts on the list?

Dunno if I'd call myself an "expert" but IMO someone gave you shortcut
advice.

If you want to clean the records the right way, invest in Disc Doctor
cleaning fluid and brushes, distilled water and buy or make a vacuum
irrigation cleaning rig to use in conjunction with the Disc Doctor stuff.
Dirt in the grooves looks like rocks to the stylus. Your goal is to run a
good stylus that's properly balanced on clean vinyl.

You should have a turntable that has adjustments for tonearm angle, skate
and counterbalance, the stylus centered and the level of the turntable
adjustable as well.

Playnig a record wet is a bad idea since as I understand it, the water cools
the grooves, making them more hard and brittle and the stylus knocks the
tips off the peaks. You want to cause less damage, not more.

[docsavage20]

Post by docsavage20
If you want to clean the records the right way, invest in Disc Doctor
cleaning fluid and brushes, distilled water and buy or make a vacuum
irrigation cleaning rig to use in conjunction with the Disc Doctor stuff.

I forgot - and a carbon fiber brush too.

[stevericks]

John,

I've been doing the same for vinyl and reel to reel over the last year.
Wish my albums were in better shape. I have played them so much many have
lost their best fidelity.

I use Audacity. Have tried some of the "correction" filters but it changed
the sound more than I wanted. Besides, I've gotten used to the pops and
clicks.

Originally, I was storing everything on CDs until I learned the life of a CD
is not very long (for ones burned on a computer). I now have 2 external
hard drives that I load everything to (one a master and the other a
backup-just in case). Currently saving everything as wav files.
Steve

I know a John Kool. Were are you located?

I have reluctantly started to transfer some LP's that I haven't listened to
in years to iTunes.
Jazz, Rock, Big Band, Classical.
Maynard, Freddie Hubbard, Maurice Andre, Norton Scores...(Mentioned to
stay on topic with rec.music.makers.trumpet )
First I record....
Choose Audacity, Final Vinyl or CD Spin Doctor - all are free. (well CD
Spin Doctor came free with Toast)
But I was never satisfied with the Pop filters.
I found yesterday a product for Mac, Windows or Linux users called
ClickRepair.
It is a one trick pony. All it does is remove clicks. But it removes via
a mathematical algorithm instead of a filter for less loss of quality.
It only works with aiff files, but it does do batch processing, so you
could set up a boatload of files to process overnight or start while you
are at work. I intend to stack several lp's on my changer and set up to
record. Then process the sound files to remove the pops and then label
the tracks and export to iTunes.
You get a full featured to use 21 days before buying, but I was sold after
one LP. So, I suppose you could convert a library without paying for it
at all....but I did pay the $40 gladly.
I am in no way affiliated with the company other than being a satisfied
customer.
I think we had a discussion about converting LP's a few months ago. I
don't recall this shareware program being mentioned.
http://wwwmaths.anu.edu.au/~briand/sound/
I thought the address was a mistake with no dot after www, but it works.
It also works with the dot.
.................................................................................
I have also found a way to stitch together scans of the 12 inch square
record jackets, which are too big to scan in one pass with my scanner.
PhotoStitch by Canon. I think it came with my camera. It is not
available to download on the Canon site, but they do have updaters which
made the Mac OS 9 version I already had compatible with OS X.
It will take the multiple scans and automatically line them up and overlap
correctly to make a single image out fo them without much efffort.
I am sure you could do this with a dedicated graphics program as well, but
the ones I tried required a lot of manual manipulation.
Once stitched together, I will have art for the CD liner and can OCR the
liner notes to a text file.
One thing I really miss about downloading from iTunes is the information
about who is playing on what track, etc. (not that I study it all that
often)
.................................................................................
I am less reluctant to start this huge project, now.

[kitekrazy]

Post by stevericks
John,
I've been doing the same for vinyl and reel to reel over the last
year. Wish my albums were in better shape. I have played them so much
many have lost their best fidelity.
I use Audacity. Have tried some of the "correction" filters but it
changed the sound more than I wanted. Besides, I've gotten used to
the pops and clicks.
Originally, I was storing everything on CDs until I learned the life
of a CD is not very long (for ones burned on a computer). I now have
2 external hard drives that I load everything to (one a master and the
other a backup-just in case). Currently saving everything as wav
files. Steve
I know a John Kool. Were are you located?

I've found it's more work than it's worth. High end filters to remove all
the noise are beyond most budgets and it's not in software form.
I've managed to convert one LP to CD that sounded clean but each song took
about and hour of work. I used Soundforge and their NR software. It doesn't
remove the all pops either.

[David]

Post by John Kool
It only works with aiff files, but it does do batch processing, so you
could set up a boatload of files to process overnight or start while you
are at work. I intend to stack several lp's on my changer and set up to
record. Then process the sound files to remove the pops and then label
the tracks and export to iTunes.

It seems that your project is too important to use a 'changer'. Use a
good quality turntable to ensure the highest quality output to then put
on your CDs.

[Jim Redelfs]

Post by David
It seems that your project is too important to use a 'changer'.

I noticed that, too.

I ditched my Girard "record eater" (changer) in the early seventies and went
with a "simple" turntable, first belt-driven then direct-driven.

Now that LPs are making a come back, and I wouldn't mind retrieving a few of
those that I gave away years ago (they still have them), I might get into
something along the lines of John's project.

Post by David
Use a good quality turntable to ensure the highest quality output to then put
on your CDs.

I'll have to invest in another turntable. I ditched the old one (and a good
one, too) when I jettisoned my vinyl. It's a move I modestly regret now.

As for distilled water...

Whatever happened to the Zero-Stat "gun" of yore? Is that still around and,
if yes, is it worthwhile. We never thought of misting with water back then.

[docsavage20]

Post by Jim Redelfs
Whatever happened to the Zero-Stat "gun" of yore? Is that still around and,
if yes, is it worthwhile.

IMO overpriced, ineffective junk.

[Cletus Baker]

Post by docsavage20

Post by Jim Redelfs
Whatever happened to the Zero-Stat "gun" of yore? Is that still around and,
if yes, is it worthwhile.

IMO overpriced, ineffective junk.

Agreed. A good carbon fiber brush, though, as someone else mentioned,
is a boon. And rather than misting the disks, I agree that you do want
to clean them. If this is a casual project, and not worth buying an
expensive cleaning machine, you can hand wash disks in a sink of tepid
water with a drop or two of dishwashing detergent. You don't want to
abrade the surface, but free up loose debris and float it into the bath,
so don't rub, but gently move the submerged disk and let the water do
its thing. Then thoroughly rinse with clean water, and dip into a
solution of Kodak Photo-Flo, which is a rinse agent that sheets water
off so that it doesn't leave spots. Air dry.

[kitekrazy]

Post by docsavage20

Post by Jim Redelfs
Whatever happened to the Zero-Stat "gun" of yore? Is that still around and,
if yes, is it worthwhile.

IMO overpriced, ineffective junk.

It was great for shocking all your friends. I still have some of the
Discwasher liquid from the 80's.

[John Kool]

Post by Jim Redelfs
Now that LPs are making a come back, and I wouldn't mind retrieving a few of
those that I gave away years ago (they still have them), I might get into
something along the lines of John's project.

Post by David
Use a good quality turntable to ensure the highest quality output to then put
on your CDs.

I don't have a good turntable. Never have.
Just the first record player I ever bought in the late 60's or early 70's.

Because I have never played the records on high quality turntables, I
imagine using one will only amplify the damage my current equipment did.

I did not know LP's were making a come back. Where did you hear this?
I thought no company was cutting vinyl any more.

[Cletus Baker]

Post by John Kool
Because I have never played the records on high quality turntables, I
imagine using one will only amplify the damage my current equipment did.

Well, it certainly won't help any. ;-)

Post by John Kool
I did not know LP's were making a come back. Where did you hear this?
I thought no company was cutting vinyl any more.

There are a few mastering facilities left who do vinyl mastering, and
at least one really good plant (maybe more). I think it's a stretch to
suggest vinyl is experiencing a "comeback". There is a small cadre of
aficionados who prefer it to digital, and they're just hard-core enough
to make it worthwhile, for example, to release most of the Saddle Creek
Records product on vinyl. In fact, Saddle Creek's graphics designer
just took a very well-deserved Grammy for the artwork on Bright Eyes'
Cassadaga album. The CD artwork is OK, but the vinyl with its huge
canvas by comparison is nothing short of stunning.

I was CC'd on a note you sent out with some samples, however the
attachments didn't come through. But I hadn't realized you started out
by feeding the turntable's output directly into a sound card. You
eventually figured out that it requires running through RIAA
equalization to restore the bottom (actually, to drop the highs ... by
about 17dB at 15kHz!). I wish I could've saved you some
experimentation. All records employ the RIAA pre-emphasis curve, and
the converse de-emphasis curve is built transparently into the "phono"
inputs of preamps. So if you're not feeding the turntable into a phono
preamp, and taking the "tape out" line-level feeds into your sound card,
you'll have to trust the sound card's software to implement the RIAA
de-emphasis curve. Apparently, you've discovered this independently.

I would suggest, though, that you'll likely get a cleaner sound by
using an external phono preamp (if you still have an old receiver or
home stereo preamp with phono inputs lying about) and feeding your sound
card with the line out from that, rather than feeding the extremely low
level signal from the turntable's cartridge right into the sound card.
The interior of a computer is about the most hostile environment
possible for audio, and the more signal you can pump into the converter
(the less amplification inside the box you have to rely upon), the
cleaner and quieter the final result will sound. If you need an
external preamp, I might have one I can lend you for a while. Give me a
shout at the studio.

[Jim Redelfs]

Post by Cletus Baker
I would suggest, though, that you'll likely get a cleaner sound by
using an external phono preamp

What can you tell us about USB turntables?

My old turntable is long gone and I would, of course, have to replace it to do
anything with my old LPs. If I can eliminate intermediary equipment, I would
prefer to do so.

JK posted his three samples to my .Mac Public Folder: jimredelfs

I am VERY encouraged by how much difference there was between the samples.
Your explanation of the RIAA "curve" (et al) was revealing. Thanks!

[Cletus Baker]

In article

Post by Jim Redelfs
What can you tell us about USB turntables?

I don't have any direct experience with 'em, but a knowledgeable
friend sent me some stuff he harvested on one, and it sounded very thin
and pinched to me ... and perhaps it was again a situation where the
RIAA curve was expected to be implemented in the software so they didn't
build it into the electronics of the turntable itself. However this guy
is involved in pro audio, and I'd expect him to know about RIAA
de-emphasis.

Another concern is that at the price point they're making these
available, they certainly can't be taking any great pains to fine tune
the mechanics, and that can make a huge difference in the quality of
playback from any turntable. Obviously, the more robust the design and
the greater the precision of the bearings and other fiddly bits, the
better the performance, and the converse is equally true.

But you can't beat 'em for convenience, that's for sure!

[Jim Redelfs]

Post by Cletus Baker
But you can't beat 'em for convenience, that's for sure!

Thanks. Your explanation makes sense.

Until the "bitter end", I was more of an audiophile than most of those I knew.
I am a piker compared to Jim Prosser, but that's a degree to which I never
aspired. I was too busy enjoying the MUSIC while he couldn't get past the
SOUND. I did the whole bit: Discwasher, vinyl-lined inner sleeves turned
90-degrees to exclude dust, high-quality (for me) Sony direct-drive turntable
with comparatively expensive pickup and stylus.

It's all gone now. How much of it I wish to restore (spending the bucks,
mostly) remains to be seen. My sister got first pick of my old vinyl. Jack
Winslade got seconds, virtually nothing left sold at the garage sale (back
then) and THAT went to the Goodwill and is gone forever.

At that time, I assumed (wrongly so) that whatever I had on vinyl would
eventually be released on CD. Wrong. In fact, my favorite pipe organ, Virgil
Fox's "The Entertainer", has yet to make it to CD. I suspect it never will.
I have a "high quality" cassette dub of it but I think my sister still has the
original vinyl. Either that or JSW. We'll see.

I think I'd be inclined to TRY a USB turntable to see how it goes. The price
of admission isn't that steep compared to a top-line "conventional" turntable
and preamp.

[John Kool]

Post by Jim Redelfs

Post by Cletus Baker
But you can't beat 'em for convenience, that's for sure!

Thanks. Your explanation makes sense.

Jim,
I have been learning more and more on Audacity, a free, open-source
sound recording and editing application on Windows, Linux and Mac OS X

I was and am impressed with ClickRepair, the one trick pony I mentioned
in a prior post.

But, there is a new beta version of Audacity, that seems quite stable on
my Mac and has more features than the older release. Had it been
available prior to discovering ClickRepair, I may have saved $40.

I am quite impressed with the processing of files off my Magnavox
Micromatic changer, even though one channel is not close to equal with
the other.

It has a lot of effects, some of which I have learned to use:
Normalize

RIAA eq (I need this since I am recording directly from the
phono cartridge)

Silence Finder - great automatic way to mark tracks from an lp so they
can be labeled.

Once I label the tracks, I export to aiff
Then I can set up a batch to process a whole lp's tunes at once for:

Click and Pop removal
Noise Removal
Compression
Leveler
export to a chosen file format, either wav, FLAC, Og Vorbis, mp3, etc

For unattended processing, I am pretty pleased with the results.

So, you might find a better used turntable at a Goodwill store and be
able to use it just fine.