Discussion:
Stirring the pot
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John Kool
2009-11-14 19:42:07 UTC
Permalink
Got this from a friend of mine.

I had heard part of this speech on some radio show.

Let's have a discussion and revitalize oma.general again.


This is the bill that Lee Terry voted against. It is
the bill in the anti-Terry tv ads.
The ads are from a group that wants grants to develop
alternative energy sources and groups that will trade
carbon credits.

GB


Does anybody remember the reason given for the establishment of the
DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY .... During the Carter Administration?
Anybody?
Anything?
No?
Didn't think so!
Bottom line. We've spent several hundred billion dollars in support of
an agency; the reason for which not one person who reads this can remember!
Ready??
It was very simple ... and at the time, everybody thought it very
appropriate.
The Department of Energy was instituted on 8-04-1977.
TO LESSEN OUR DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OIL.
Hey, pretty efficient, huh???
AND NOW, IT'S 2009 -- 32 YEARS LATER -- AND THE BUDGET FOR THIS
"NECESSARY" DEPARTMENT IS AT $24.2 BILLION A YEAR. THEY HAVE
16,000 FEDERAL EMPLOYEES AND APPROXIMATELY 100,000 CONTRACT EMPLOYEES;
AND LOOK AT THE JOB THEY HAVE DONE!
THIS IS WHERE YOU SLAP YOUR FOREHEAD AND SAY,
"WHAT WAS I THINKING?"


This is quite interesting. Ends up “Cap and Trade” is just an Al Gore
shell game to get more of your tax dollars. Remember Al who lives in
the big energy hog of a house? Well, it’s OK because he has carbon
credits that cancel out his being a big CO2 contributor. In other
words, he purchases “carbon credits” from someone who is energy
efficient so that his energy hogging house is carbon neutral after the
credits are applied. Of course even an idiot could figure out that on
balance the environment is neither better nor worse off because he
purchased these credits. It just makes the Nobel Laureate look better.
Optics, you know, marketing and spin.


What would help the environment is if he would shut down a few of the
furnaces or air conditioners that work year round to heat and cool the
energy hog he lives in.



Then there is the water, the lights, the heated pool, the heated
driveway and all the rest.



When cap and trade hits the industrial market it will be cause for
energy prices to soar without helping the environment one iota. Shell
game, that’s what it is.



But a shell game that creates a new industry that buys and sells carbon
credits. Follow the link below.



So … about a week and a half ago I was struck with the notion that there
is something big, Bigger, BIGGER than what is on the surface with this
administration.



I couldn’t put my finger on it, but I just knew (know) with 0 very
rarely in sight of making any real decisions or policies he was up to
something,



leaving HC and Cap/Trade as a cover while he lurks beneath the surface …
planning.



I just came across this (4 minutes).







It may not be this, though this is MIGHTILY concerning – but I just know
something’s up…..



Keep praying. It is now all we have.
Cletus Baker
2009-11-14 20:29:01 UTC
Permalink
Oh boy! Yet another polemic that does nothing whatsoever to advance
any cogent discussion about the topic. If there was a point to his
diatribe, it complete escaped me, being a more-of-less rambling
concatenation of common straw men and red herrings.

As for the video he referenced, I almost didn't bother to watch it
(YouTube being the bastion of accurate fact-finding and peer reviewed
thought that it is). But I did ... at least until the speaker got to
the ever-so-popular line, "'THEY' [the ubiquitous THEY we've all heard
about, no doubt] are about to impose a communist world government upon
us....". At that point I was laughing so hard it was pointless to
continue. I'm surprised he wasn't wearing his tinfoil beanie.


Look ... if you don't like cap & trade, come up with a better ... AND
REALISTICALLY IMPLEMENTED ... solution to rein in the outlandish
squandering of our natural resources. And then, by the way, tell me
what YOU'VE done to advance the cause. I've hung up my SUV and reverted
to a MINI that gets 2.5 times the gas mileage (while tolerating the
cramped cargo area in which to haul my equipment to remotes). I've just
voluntarily spent an EXTRA 32,000 bux (basically twice the cost of a
conventional gas system) to replace the antique HVAC in the studio
building with a geothermal system. I don't have to tell you that there
was precious little economic incentive for me to do so ... I got a
whopping $500 credit from OPPD (reduced from the $1000 credit that was
promised when I began the project!), and Uncle Whiskers is yet to come
through with the carrot that was dangled, offering me a tax break for
being such a good citizen. And the monthly savings, while real, are
going to take a Very Long Time to amortize the outlay.

Until all of us do our part WITHOUT economic incentives to force us
into it, cap & trade is probably the best of a plethora of bad solutions
to come up with artificial incentives; we can't afford to wait for the
REAL incentives of running out of oil/coal/gas to take effect. But i'd
far away rather engage in a rational discussion of the situation than
sit through Yet Another Load o' Hogwash such as the esteemed gentlemen
whose letter you quoted and who spoke on the video put forth. So deep
six that shite and tell me what you've got that's better.

There! ... Is that the maelstrom you were looking for? ;-)
John Kool
2009-11-16 02:55:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cletus Baker
Oh boy! Yet another polemic that does nothing whatsoever to advance
any cogent discussion about the topic. If there was a point to his
diatribe, it complete escaped me, being a more-of-less rambling
concatenation of common straw men and red herrings.
As for the video he referenced, I almost didn't bother to watch it
(YouTube being the bastion of accurate fact-finding and peer reviewed
thought that it is). But I did ... at least until the speaker got to
the ever-so-popular line, "'THEY' [the ubiquitous THEY we've all heard
about, no doubt] are about to impose a communist world government upon
us....". At that point I was laughing so hard it was pointless to
continue. I'm surprised he wasn't wearing his tinfoil beanie.
Look ... if you don't like cap & trade, come up with a better ... AND
REALISTICALLY IMPLEMENTED ... solution to rein in the outlandish
squandering of our natural resources. And then, by the way, tell me
what YOU'VE done to advance the cause. I've hung up my SUV and reverted
to a MINI that gets 2.5 times the gas mileage (while tolerating the
cramped cargo area in which to haul my equipment to remotes). I've just
voluntarily spent an EXTRA 32,000 bux (basically twice the cost of a
conventional gas system) to replace the antique HVAC in the studio
building with a geothermal system. I don't have to tell you that there
was precious little economic incentive for me to do so ... I got a
whopping $500 credit from OPPD (reduced from the $1000 credit that was
promised when I began the project!), and Uncle Whiskers is yet to come
through with the carrot that was dangled, offering me a tax break for
being such a good citizen. And the monthly savings, while real, are
going to take a Very Long Time to amortize the outlay.
Until all of us do our part WITHOUT economic incentives to force us
into it, cap & trade is probably the best of a plethora of bad solutions
to come up with artificial incentives; we can't afford to wait for the
REAL incentives of running out of oil/coal/gas to take effect. But i'd
far away rather engage in a rational discussion of the situation than
sit through Yet Another Load o' Hogwash such as the esteemed gentlemen
whose letter you quoted and who spoke on the video put forth. So deep
six that shite and tell me what you've got that's better.
There! ... Is that the maelstrom you were looking for? ;-)
As Sara Palin would say, "You Betcha!"

I am hoping Mike Riddle will weigh in, too.
I am all for conservation. It should make economic sense.

I remember, when the once mighty Maytag company of Newton, IA (and now a
defunct nameplate only for Whirlpool) was mentioned as a possible cause
of some dead cattle downstream from the plant.

Old Man Maytag said, "enough is enough" and installed a revolutionary
(at that time) reclamation project.

They found that it paid for itself in the reduced waste.

I think the geo-thermal will pay out, eventually.

But, my real question is political.

Can a treaty supercede our constitution?
Cletus Baker
2009-11-16 05:12:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Kool
But, my real question is political.
Can a treaty supercede our constitution?
I don't see the dichotomy. A treaty doesn't supercede the
constitution, but the constitution allows for treaties to be entered
into with other nations.

But I'm puzzled by the question in the first place, unless you buy the
premise put forth in that YouTube video that a single, Communist world
government is going to be installed in place of our good ol' republic as
a result of a signature on a (yet-to-be-crafted) document which the
tinfoil hat guy happens to have a copy of. And if you do believe that,
I have a terrific investment scheme you might be interested in.....
John Kool
2009-11-16 19:40:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cletus Baker
Post by John Kool
But, my real question is political.
Can a treaty supercede our constitution?
I don't see the dichotomy. A treaty doesn't supercede the
constitution, but the constitution allows for treaties to be entered
into with other nations.
But I'm puzzled by the question in the first place, unless you buy the
premise put forth in that YouTube video that a single, Communist world
government is going to be installed in place of our good ol' republic as
a result of a signature on a (yet-to-be-crafted) document which the
tinfoil hat guy happens to have a copy of. And if you do believe that,
I have a terrific investment scheme you might be interested in.....
I have about a dollar.
Can you turn it into a million in a week or two?
Cletus Baker
2009-11-17 02:59:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Kool
I have about a dollar.
Can you turn it into a million in a week or two?
Y'know, a while back I coulda ... but Bernie, my friend with the
connections, got hisself into a bit of a bind.....

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